Lavalier Mics

[haesslich]

hey there, i've a question...
is someone using lavalier microphones for field recording? my current field recording setup is the olympus ls10 + a beyerdynamic mce86 shotgun.
since the beyerdynamic is relatively quiet (a fact they fixed with the mce86 II), i think it might be worth getting another microphone into the setup. the LS10's internal mics are okay to my taste, but their stereo field could be wider (and the mce86 is mono), therefore i think a stereo set might be good choice! i suspect that an X/Y stereo mic might not be that different from what the LS10 offers to justify the price, while two seperate condenser mics would require two stands also (which is too heavy for my taste then). that's why i got interested in lavalier mics...
the dpa 4060 are really often referenced on websites to be really great for ambience recording, and they're light, small, unobtrusive etc... however they're quite expensive. but then i saw the (new?) rode lavalier, which would be an affordable stereo set. the rode has approx. the same sensitivity as the DPA, but i did not found information about the self-noise.
does anyone use lavalier microphones for field recordings and could share experiences or even sounds? especially not from the dpa 4060, which can heard in several recordings on tim prebble's blog already.

maybe it's a stupid idea to think about new mics in general... so feel free to talk me out of this.
keep this really brilliant manifesto in mind: a lesser photographer, which maps perfect to recording addicts. or to modular system junkies. or bicycle tinkerer. ok, this is getting off topic now ;-)

[NQ]

Thanks for the link.

[oootini]

great link! and so true.

[mac]

the dpa's (especially the 4060) have relatively high noise floor. so if you want to record quiet ambiences it will be audible. but that will be an issue only if need them for pro applications i guess. the recordings will be perfectly usable and will sound great. for all loud sources, such as urban environments, they are fantastic. the price is discouraging though. I heard good opinions about lavaliers made by "sound professionals" and they are very affordable. there are a few others that i could recommend but i had to refresh my mind first to list the names.

i suggest visiting socialsounddesign.com, typing lavalier into search box and there you go, lots of input/opinions/suggestions on them.

and if i might suggest, unless you buy budget mics, rather get second hand. new mics loose a lot of their value as soon as you walk out of the store.

[haesslich]

thanks for your advises.

the dpa's (especially the 4060) have relatively high noise floor. so if you want to record quiet ambiences it will be audible.

i'd rather get a second (more sensitive) shotgun for quiet ambiences. but that's rather long term.

but that will be an issue only if need them for pro applications i guess. the recordings will be perfectly usable and will sound great. for all loud sources, such as urban environments, they are fantastic. the price is discouraging though. I heard good opinions about lavaliers made by "sound professionals" and they are very affordable. there are a few others that i could recommend but i had to refresh my mind first to list the names.

any other recommendation is highly apreciated! especially when looking for used mic's it's beneficial to have a few more options, since it's hard to find u sed DPA's as it seems. the above mentioned rode lavaliers would be a possible plan b if i cannot find a used pair, because they're affordable new. in this case they'd have to deliver some quality, though.

and if i might suggest, unless you buy budget mics, rather get second hand. new mics loose a lot of their value as soon as you walk out of the store.

i absolutely agree, i'd always first try to find a used mic. i found my used beyerdynamic mce86 for a no-brainer price.

[StephenVitiello]

I'm a bit late to this conversation and just to put my two cents in. I use a pair of 4060s as a backup for field recording and really like them. For what I've done, I haven't heard any noise issues at all. These two blogs have posted recordings with the DPAs:

http://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/dozer

http://sepulchra.com/blog/?p=1674

Also, I find supercardioids to be a better way to go than shotgun mics. I've tried the Sennheiser MKH 70 and 60s and Rode shotgun mics but find supercardioids to be a lot more pleasing for field recording. I have a Schoeps but have also heard an Oktavamod that's much less expensive and sounded great...

[haesslich]

hey stephen, and thanks for an additional opinion.
seems that i'd rather spare money for a pair of dpa4060s (maybe i find used ones until i got all the money together).

also thanks for the oktavamod hint, i didn't knew this shop until now.
unfortunately it's either / or - so only one new pair of mic's i think my beyerdynamic is a hypercardioid - is there a huge different (i mean: soundwise; i know the polar plots) between supercardioid and hypercardioids?

[StephenVitiello]

i think my beyerdynamic is a hypercardioid - is there a huge different (i mean: soundwise; i know the polar plots) between supercardioid and hypercardioids?

I think they're very similar. From what I understand, supercardioid is a bit less directional than hyperdioid. ...

[StephenVitiello]

just one more thing to mention for binaurals - I remember reading on the Naturerecordists group that this company made nice mics but I've never heard them:
http://www.aevox.be/
They're definitely more affordable than the DPAs!

[haesslich]

just one more thing to mention for binaurals - I remember reading on the Naturerecordists group that this company made nice mics but I've never heard them:
http://www.aevox.be/
They're definitely more affordable than the DPAs!

thanks for that link!
the demo recordings of the CLASSIC M MkII stereo sound really great. Price looks more than good to me too. they run with plugin power, which my recorder can provide... I see no point why I should not to try these out! I think I'll get those.

[StephenVitiello]

thanks for that link!
the demo recordings of the CLASSIC M MkII stereo sound really great. Price looks more than good to me too. they run with plugin power, which my recorder can provide... I see no point why I should not to try these out! I think I'll get those.

Great! I hope they're good. Please let me know. ..

[haesslich]

The mics just arrived!
So let me tell you about the ordering process a bit as it was super satisfying. I wrote them an email (on sunday) asking if they stock mics usually and asking about some tech specs. Got a reply the same day, that they'll never stock mics; all mics are built to order. That way they can handle different cable length and other modifications on request easily. They stock all parts though, and building time is just a few days. So I ordered (with 120cm cable, which now seems a bit short to me, but that's what extension cables are for...), and payed via paypal. I received the order confirmation and some days later I got a notification that building  now. Again some days after that, I got the notification that it's been handed to the postal service.
So they arrived today - less than two weeks after ordering, and i was informed about the status of my order at any time.

Build quality looks good as I can judge from my first impression. The capsules are built into (i think) neutrik jacks - not too bad, I guess! feels robust too. The mics take plug-in power from mobile recorders. I had a first test of operation, but no audio to present yet. I can say: they work, and seem to fulfill what I was looking for. My first impression is that they're not in particular less noisy then the built in's of my Olympus, but my primary goal was to get a wider stereo field, which is for sure possible with these.
They are delivered in a spectacle case and come with foam windshield and a pair of velcro strips for attaching the mics to whatever.

I'll do some outdoor recordings during my christmas vacation. Maybe I've to buy an extension cable first.
That's it so far - audio will follow next year!