Starting off with Reel to Reel

[b.randon]

First off, hello! I'm Brandon.

Second off, I've been wanting to utilize reel to reel for a while now, mostly for ambient/drone music. I want to use it mostly like an instrument/sampling tool as opposed to a means to record with. What's the best way for me to go about utilizing and purchasing a reel to reel for the first time? If there are any resources/guides on how to use a reel to reel in an ambient/musical way would be awesome.

[chorus7]

There are a bunch of things to watch out for buying them (second hand)... I'll try to dig up some links but some things to watch out for are...

Tape speed ( depending on if quality recording is your thing or not )
How many channels
How good are the pre's ( tube vs solid state )
Home vs pro audio
Tape heads ( this one is very important since some are impossible to replace )
Belts - Are they worn out or dried out ( again finding replacements can be tricky )

Its an amazing way to work but quite hard and labor intensive if your used to DAW's but it all depends on how "live" or lofi you want to be...

Joe

[b.randon]

Thank you for the info so far! I've heard of how labor intensive tape can be in general, but I think it'd be really interesting to work with.

Recording quality doesn't have to be pristine; I'm in it for the tonal qualities mostly. I'm hoping to get a portable sized one if I can for field recordings perhaps.

[haesslich]

I'm hoping to get a portable sized one if I can for field recordings perhaps.

unfortunately the nagras are unaffordable, but maybe an uher report monitor could do the trick.


don't know how good the preamps are, though.

[taylordeupree]

welcome, brandon!

as an owner of 3 reel-to-reel machines and a fourtrack cassette machine, all acquired used, i can say the biggest concern is finding one that actually works.

i was given one reel-to-reel that works almost flawlessly except one of the 8 tracks doesn't work. another machine i bought at an estate sale for cheap, it seemed to work when i tested it there, but got it home to find out it has some capstan or belt problem. another machine i bought from an old studio closing sale and it SEEMS to be ok after minimal testing.

my 4-track cassette portastudio was bought on ebay, claiming to work, but turns it out needed a new pinch roller, which i managed to order from Tascam an install myself.

so, so far, so good... but i don't know if i'd ever buy another tape machine used that didn't say "newly serviced" or "just gone over by tech" or "100% working, new belts" etc... unless you're a handy DIY guy (which i'm not really) you'll often be into a repair project.

if you're just looking for a processing type of tool instead of a full-featured recorder to mix down to, then you should probably go for the "worst" model you can find. high quality reel-to-reel machines can be really clean and hi-fi sounding... so if you want something for effect i'd go for old and low-end... of course, those will also tend to have the most problems...

good luck, and keep us posted!

[oootini]

i bought an old but fully working 3 head Marantz PMD221 for about 50 bucks on ebay for the purposes of "ghetto" tape echo effects and general tape distortion sounds.

works quite well.

[Le Berger]

Hello Brandon,

Most of the wisdom that had to be said already has been, guess I'd like to add a bit to the "are you a DIY person?" portion. If you live anywhere near a major city, I encourage you to try and find a second hand store, hole in the wall, etc. You know that place with the old guy who doesn't seem to give a crap about anyone or anything, smokes a pipe or chews tobacco behind the counter, yaddi yaddi yadda. That's the place. (Just painting a picture here, but most cities will have such a shop, and anyone who's been there since the 60s - 70s has more chances of having encountered the problems you will, and know where to find parts, maybe even have them in stock...)

If you go for an older low end machine, which can and probably will bring lots of cachet to what you do, the parts are not often available readily (hence the dynamite advice from Taylor to get a second one just for parts.) but even that sometimes won't do. So finding a resource like that can be really helpful at times.

[taylordeupree]

also, keep in mind.... tape is expensive!!! i just bought a single 10" reel on ebay for $75... they're that much (and that gives me like 15 minutes of recording time)

you might want to also consider an old cassette machine... they're less hi-fi than reel to reels and have an awesome vibe... cheaper.. and tape is a LOT cheaper...

i'd recommend anything Tascam from the 80s...

[oootini]

Wow. Are they that expensive? I found a bunch of immaculate looking reels in my uncles old music room along with an old akai machine...

he has a bunch of these, most have already been recorded onto though, not sure if that makes a difference...

[mac]

i did some research and found Revox 10" tapes in very good condition for 30$ a piece. available to purchase now. there are also Orwo and Stilon 5" available around 1-10$. Some are recorded, some not checked for condition, but others never removed from the box.  Considerably cheaper then 75$. Plenty of offers over here. If anyone is interested I can check shipping prices to Europe and US.

[b.randon]

Yeah, I've heard that tape is easily the most expensive part of the whole thing. Preferably I'd like to worry about that later, buuut...

Anyways, thanks again for everyone's info! I still need to find one of those hole-in-wall places that Le Berger described in the nearby city. Closest thing I have to a thrift store (that isn't in an area that's prone to casual violence) is a goodwill, and while I've had good luck with cameras there, there isn't much in terms of music stuff. I would be using the thing as a processing tool more than a means to record, so the more lo-fi, the better.

As a sidenote, I did get myself a cassette player, which'll probably keep be occupied for a while. Simple sine wave synths sound beautiful on tape, hergk. Now if I only knew how to craft a working tape loop.

[landtitles]

Track down a second hand hi-fi store in your city, the kind with all those old silver face yamaha and sansui amps and funny looking speakers.  They will almost definitely have some reel to reels kicking around, if your lucky they will also repair stuff, so your reel to reel should be working, and if it breaks they might/should fix it for you.

I grabbed an old sony from the 60s and i works great, 100 bucks with a reel of tape.

As for cassettes, cheap cheap cheap. There is a thread here on making tape loops. javascript:void(0);

[Charlie Grant]

Hi folks. Don't want to hijack the reel to reel aspect of this thread with these queries, so I'll keep it brief.

Would something like this be suitable for doing cassette tape loops?
http://www.accessguitar.com/inventory/tascam/porta2.html

And if so, would it be possible to modify it to get those gigantic DIY loops that you see people doing with reel to reel machines? Maybe by taking the clear plastic lid off the tape deck and cutting some of the housing away at the side, if that makes sense. Or is that just a completely impractical idea with cassette?

Any advice would be much appreciated and if this needs to be moved elsewhere, please let me know. Thanks

[landtitles]

Would something like this be suitable for doing cassette tape loops?
http://www.accessguitar.com/inventory/tascam/porta2.html

you can use any and all cassette decks for tape loops as the loop is all inside the cassette, 4 tracks are boss for cassette tape loops, but some portable ones are great too, built in condensers, variable speeds and dirty heads all to boot

i think trying too modify a cassette deck would be a huge pain in the ass, i think someone has done it though, much much easier with a reel to reel.

you can get 10 to 12 sec loops on cassette with some machines

[Charlie Grant]

Thanks for the info. I suspected trying anything too adventurous with cassette might be more trouble than it's worth.