It's only fair...

[Le Berger]

A few discussions I've had lately (some with members of this forum as well) made me consider labels under a new light. Especially when speaking of smaller independent ventures, labels have almost become philanthropist or charitable entities, operating with bare minimums and promoting artists who cannot make ends meet, taking considerable risks with every new release to do so.

It's probably not that grim, or that black and white, but I'm just trying to paint a portrait here. It seems that no matter how much advertising is done to make the consumer aware that downloading illegally hits the people who produce the things they like straight in the gutt, there is an ease on the part of the user to just go ahead and not feel guilty anyway, everybody does it / etc. all kinds of justifications are worthwhile really.

So, I'm wondering if we're not at the point where 'fair trade' becomes applicable to music production. What say you?

[Charlie Grant]

In the last five years or so, the way people listen to and buy music has changed. It affects different people in different ways. A lot of people assume that music should be free.

Is it correct to think that most people can't make a living from experimental music these days? You have to take advantage of the different sources to get your music out there.

[jórgos]

For me the only way that those labels/asrtists can in this business survive over the next years is to enter the niche market.

Limited and really high quality products, a complete artistic statestement not just some tracks in a beautiful digi-pack.

I believe that this will mark a line between art and music that you can buy from your itunes store in a lame mp3 format.

[steinbruchel]

...not just some tracks in a beautiful digi-pack.

i'd already be quite happy if the releases were at least in beautiful digipack.
unfortuntaly in many cases not even this is true 

[Orphax]

i actually prefer 100% cardboard 4 page sleeves, but that's not important.

What is important is that Le Berger strikes a major point here. Lately I have been thinking a lot about what to do to gain interest for and sell the releases on my label.
Even in the small niche market it seems to be hard, that while enough people are actually interested. No matter the good reviews or high opinions on the music, people just seem to ignore things, or want free downloads (or maybe purchased downloads, but that's a small group).

[jórgos]

i actually prefer 100% cardboard 4 page sleeves, but that's not important.

What is important is that Le Berger strikes a major point here. Lately I have been thinking a lot about what to do to gain interest for and sell the releases on my label.
Even in the small niche market it seems to be hard, that while enough people are actually interested. No matter the good reviews or high opinions on the music, people just seem to ignore things, or want free downloads (or maybe purchased downloads, but that's a small group).

Small niche labels will never lose their customers for sure...they chose those labels for a reason and that reason i think will not change!
Now, about those that they want free downloads etc i believe that you cannot take those people on your side because they are not willing to pay for anything, doesn't matter how good the product is or how good the reviews are etc...it is a matter of money and priorities and sometimes i can understand that.
But don't forget that music labels are in fact companies and just like any other company out there they must transform and change in order to become more appealing to customers, old and new ones.

[Le Berger]

Small niche labels will never lose their customers for sure..

I'm gonna go with "think again"!

Not a single business / person / entity can count on an absolute devoted following that is faithful day in day out. It just doesn't work that way, for very many reasons that are also out of your control as well.

Niche markets work really well with specialty products, exclusivity, luxury, etc. where you actually control the supply to generate demand and excite sense of ownership. Meanwhile certainly that can to an extent work with music, and that's why we're seeing a small but steady resurgence in interest for vinyls, and the packaging & product offer is right along those lines you mentioned (artistic statement, work of art in and of itself, etc.) I don't think that it's actually a long term sustainable avenue, more like a band-aid to stop the bleeding if you will.

+ whatever niche market you happen to fall into will have 'x' amount of pockets with 'y' amount of people trying to get into them. More often than not the x value will more or less stay the same or dwindle while y is ever increasing. you make the maths...

And yes, you can educate and generate awareness so people care about the art, but you will have a very hard time making them want a product that well, how can i put this, they do not want!

Music is in this fairly unique position where the physical support is no longer necessary to its distribution. So it's only a question of time before it actually becomes completely obsolete (or close to it anyway) Convenience and ease of access to the actual product (the music itself) is definitely overshadowing the desire to acquire a physical support for it, which is now perceived as a burden and an annoyance instead of the actual work of art in and of itself.

to be continued (I have work to do around the house...)

[Le Berger]

And i don't l know, I guess long story short I see a sustainable avenue in relating to the audience, in very much a similar manner as fair trade is applied in other fields, not 'instead of' bonifying and refining the product offer but at the very least 'alongside and coupled with'.

[jórgos]

i just believe that it's really easy for those labels to keep their customers rather to win new ones. Generally i agree with you Sam but i don't think that labels will go extinct!

[Le Berger]

Oh yeah, no, yeah, I hope I didn't give that impression. I'm more meeting you along the lines of "must transform and adapt" than anything really.

The catering to a small market of dedicated followers portion is already what most labels and artists in the fields we gravitate do. I'm not for one second saying that should go out the window, that would be quite insane. And it is very true that acquiring new followers, just like any business really, is more difficult and costly than keeping the same ones around. One would think the 'viral' revolution should actually help with that, but when it comes to music it very poorly translates into $.

[jórgos]

You sounded a bit pessimistic, i think. 

[jórgos]

The odd thing about free downloads is that when you (the artist) post your music online for free everyone would think what is wrong with this guy, he gives his music for free??? No payments??? It is as the only value out there is the value of money, put a price and everyone would comprehend your work differently. And then of course it's ok to download free music from third parties rather directly from the artist.

[taylordeupree]

if you want to see what happens when labels and musicians stop making money on music, look at the major label market. music, by "musicians" is considered a mere marketing tool for the REAL product: merchandise, advertising, sponsorships, etc.

this is simply not a world i like the looks of and i prefer to support musicians  because they are *artists* and when i support them i'm also supporting the instrument manufacturers (hardware, softare, guitars, whatever) that keep the musicians able to make music.

i don't steal from painters, or restaurants or other stores so i won't steal from musicians either.

i agree labels and artists have to adapt to new ways, and i believe 12k has done that. in fact, we were one of the first small (tiny) labels on iTunes, back in 2004 and continue to explore the world of vinyl and other such editions but cannot keep fighting against the piracy which is overwhelming.

[jórgos]

i agree labels and artists have to adapt to new ways, and i believe 12k has done that. in fact, we were one of the first small (tiny) labels on iTunes, back in 2004 and continue to explore the world of vinyl and other such editions but cannot keep fighting against the piracy which is overwhelming.

I know, 12k is one of the small labels that i really like to support and i feel pretty good about that!

Have you ever considered to produce only vinyl editions ? I feel that CDs are dying...

That way you wont lose your (devoted) customers and if you can include downloads in digital formats, everyone's happy.

Maybe it's a way to fight piracy but then again vinyl must be a more expensive product.

[jórgos]

this is simply not a world i like the looks of and i prefer to support musicians  because they are *artists* and when i support them i'm also supporting the instrument manufacturers (hardware, softare, guitars, whatever) that keep the musicians able to make music.

This is the main reason why a support labels especially small ones..it's a cycle which cannot break!