Effects pedals vs VSTs...a couple of questions.

[Charlie Grant]

I've never used an effects pedal before. When it comes to that sort of thing, it's always been a case of working with VSTs. They're cheap and straightforward. Pedals seem comparatively expensive but people still use them, so they must offer something else.

Are there some things that just can't be emulated with VSTs? Do you prefer VSTs or pedals, or does it just depend on the situation? If you do use them, what were the first couple of pedals that you invested in? Were they worth the investment? And how do they fit into a set-up?

Thanks for reading and any input you can provide.

[Le Berger]

Are there some things that just can't be emulated with VSTs?

Age old digital vs. analog debate I guess.

With whatever limited technical knowledge I hold, I would answer that question with:
theoretically? no.
practically? kinda.

You speak of pedals, what they offer that is most obvious is hands on / direct and real time effectiveness. Also dedication, and in a way that's very crucial. Sure you can install 3000 plug-ins in your DAW or sequencer, each with 1000 parameters, but before you get even one of them to do what you want it to do and really get to know it through and through, well in many situations if you had acquired the exact pedal you need to get it to do what it is exactly you need for it to do... it would have been more convenient, immediately rewarding and gratifying, etc.

But technically, you can get VSTs and plug ins and patches to do potentially just about anything. So it becomes more a question of what you're comfortable with, what your wallet can afford, and most importantly what is it you're trying to do?

Because for very many things, pedals (or any hardware really) can be much more convenient, offer a quality which is easily testable / quantifiable, reliability, ease, gratification, etc. which software CAN achieve as well, don't get me wrong, but it's just another ordeal...

That said, I believe that digital avenues offer potentials yet barely explored.
It's the end user that really defines where the creation goes, not the tools, y'know?

[oootini]

i like the best of both worlds. at the moment i have a good few pedals on various send tracks e.g.,

*el capistan delay + boss rv5 reverb - send little bits of everything here, sounds great for lush pads.
*behringer vd400 - nice (apparently) analog bucket brigade delay pedal, cheap as hell. yummy self oscillation.
*behringer dd100 - rubbish digital delay that give me a nice short delay chorus type effect for synths.
*behringer bsy600 bass synth pedal. great to run synths through for added texture.
*behringer  (seeing a pattern here?) US600 pitch shifter. rubbish pedal that gives a pleasing tinny pitch shift for some sounds.
*boss df-2 distortion and feedbacker pedal. - cool distortion and self oscillation on a send track, but i think i'd need a reamp box to properly use this.

i'm also just about to build a small stone chorus and FSH-1 clone pedal using tonepad pcbs. only the capistan was expensive (and worth it imo) all the others were under 100 euro, most well under that. pedals will definatley add character. boss pedals are built like tanks so you can be pretty sure that cheap second hand beaten up pedals will still work properly.

anyone recomend a decent pitch shifter for synth duties? or a good 'verb pedal?

[Koda]

PEDALS!

I'm a guitar player, so pedals all the time, every time. VST's will offer way too many options and waste my time with continuous tinkering. The physical limitations of pedals are a must.

Plus, stomp boxes are easier on the eyes.

[billygomberg]

I think this largely depends on what yr practice is.  I have one pedal (the Capistan - which is, as Aidan and I'm sure others agree, well worth the money), and I actually can't think of adding more.  Okay I have a modded Boss DS-1 Distortion but that is for something....else.

I only use plugins when I'm in the edit/mix part of my work, so most of my plugins are not "effects" - I have a good handful of effects for sure, but the plugins I go for are really the mixing/mastering kind.

Back in "the day" I found it really easy to just pile on effects until I got what I wanted, but I ended up pretty averse to this style of creation, at the same time my work tended more and more towards improvisation, which required me to be designing my own systems, so I pretty much forgot about effects plugins as a primary creative tool.

also, Aidan's cost/benefit approach to pedal buying is pretty admirable.

[oootini]

pssst billy- that's aidan

[billygomberg]

pssst billy- that's aidan

ack.  so close!  thanks, saturday morning posting. sorry about that.

[oootini]

i've been called worse things.

[billygomberg]

i've been called worse things.

uh...I can always try harder?

[landtitles]

I tend to use pedals when composing but not as much when it comes time to arrange and mix.  Plug-ins always seem to get used much more.

I think if you are using real instruments, electric especially and acoustic too if set up right, pedals are an awesome way to create.

That being said pedals are not cheap and just like plug-ins there are so many to choose from, i purchased some pedals after reading some previous threads here on pedals, and still want more, man always more...

If your going to buy pedals just research as much as possible, lots of videos on youtube et al.

Above all though, pedals are really fun.

Oh yeah, if you can purchase a pedal from a dealer and return it if you don't like it, thats great, also maybe rent for a month or so if possible.

lt

[puggo]

since 4 months have been using 3 loopers and old fx devices with my guitars, synths, mics, etc...no computer recording, no updates, no dsp.

my pedal chain+amp+mic is always switched on

[billygomberg]

since 4 months have been using 3 loopers and old fx devices with my guitars, synths, mics, etc...no computer recording, no updates, no dsp.

my pedal chain+amp+mic is always switched on

this is not to be overlooked.  On a good day it takes about 15 minutes for me to really get my full live setup running.  If I just want to light up the synths and Capistan, it's just a matter of turning everything on.

[puggo]

this is not to be overlooked.  On a good day it takes about 15 minutes for me to really get my full live setup running.  If I just want to light up the synths and Capistan, it's just a matter of turning everything on.

yeah...sometimes I spent more than 10 minutes to tune my old guitar!

a great help on my little setup has been my old jamman looper (and his sd card storage!)...not hi-res recording,  it works for me, instead placing mics, cabling them to soundcard, midi, checking levels, etc.

and yes, love this part of the creative process starting from a "sketched" sound running over and over again..(if this happens, then I hit the "save" button!).

[taylordeupree]

i'll just give a nod to the analog vs. digital reason here... there isn't much in pedal form that you can't do with a plug in...

but i've become really disenchanted with plug ins lately.. i use them all the time when mixing.. but when creating music, plug ins are too easy. and i just tired of having the computer be the center of everything in my life... so i stay away from it as much as i can when i write music.

when marcus fischer was in my studio a couple months back, as some of you know, we used a rather large pile of pedals and loopers to create our album... didn't use the computer at all for writing. at some point during the session marc took out his laptop, loaded some max/msp patch that he wanted to show me, and within about 10 seconds had a really legit sounding thing going.... that moment right there was huge for me (and marc) in realizing that we don't want the 10 second solution... we don't want what anyone can download or pirate.. it was too easy, the *process* was gone.

no desire to make music that way.

[Le Berger]

Totally understandable, and for most 'experimental' artists, by very definition the process is as interesting and as intrinsic a portion of the creation as the end result itself.

Maybe if we're talking more mainstream oriented material, the discourse would change a little though. The end result / product being all that matters really.

But personally, even as a so called 'experimental' artist, I have a desire for efficiency and somewhat instant gratification. Namely, from ideation to creation to end result I want as short a time span as possible and as little messing around with things that clearly don't add to the experience or aren't directly related to it.

So, if some plug-in makes my life hell I ditch it, if some pedal is too expensive I try and get the equivalent in software form, etc. A 'best of both worlds' approach I guess, and a fairly intuitive one at that. If something requires from me much involvement and too steep a learning curve, I will often times give up. Lazy? maybe... But what I want is to make music and make it now. So unless the added value of something is self explanatory and I feel an urgent need to acquire the knowledge base to use it, I stick with what I know best and what works for me.

I feel like it's the catch 22 of technology often times, so many options that the end user is almost confused or uses it in a very unimaginative fashion. I mean, ffs, listen to what Terry Riley did with tape loops, an organ + sax soprano... In very many ways, no need for much in terms of tool or instrumentation as long as the creator is imaginative.

And that, is my 2 cents.