CDs are dead (almost)

[p jørgensen]

i've been (silently) following this thread. it's obviously a very complex future we as musicians/artists/label owners etc are facing and i really appreciate everyones thought on this.

just a quick answer to rupske regarding the difference between borrowing albums from the library and illegally dowloading them. i guess the national legislations varies, but here in denmark there's a big difference between the two, as the artist gets "compensated" financially each year for the copies sold to libraries.

[jimmy behan]

I remember a similar discussion on the old board when Taylor wound up term, about the ins and outs of free music.
I guess things are even harder for small labels now.
The writing has been on the wall for CDs for a few years now I fear.
I think they'll still be around for a while in niche music circles for those who appreciate the physical art/object, a bit like vinyl and cassettes are now.
I'm not a big fan of cassettes, some younger folk may like the novelty aspect but I remember them too well, to ever want to go back there.

Getting small runs of CDs done in the future could be an issue if a lot of duplicating plants close down. It's already hard enough to just get a run of 200/300 without paying stupid money.
Anyone selling 500 CDs worth of experimental music these days is doing well, and all the labels who have managed to keep things going over the past few years deserve a lot of respect.

[moize]

go into work tomorrow and tell your boss you'll work for free. do it. if you won't do that, then you're a hypocrite for stealing other people's work. period. artists and labels work very hard to make good music, just as people work very hard at their jobs doing whatever it is that they do. professional artists dont want to work for free just as professional lawyers, accountants, builders, doctors, salesmen, etc want to work for free.

Perfectly put i think.

I also wonder how the quality of music has generally been effected due to legit free mp3 download formats. Generally speaking i feel working for a price and working for free there comes a point where the work is going to suffer. I am not suggesting that a good artist would specifically write a lower quality track purely because it is free, although this is possible, but more that the newer generation of artists in their battle to be heard and to be heard quickly, might not commit the time, thought, money etc than might have been, had there been a actually purchasable object at the end.
A pay download perhaps might help, slightly improving this possible problem, but still the time commitment isn't the same as an actual cd release needs, the financial input isn't the same, the release schedule isn't the same. In theory a track could be wrote on Friday night, and uploaded as a net-release Saturday morning, with little time for much else, and somehow i don't feel this is a responsible or professional way to do things, generally speaking.

I must be honest, when i saw 12k announced Term i was surprised. It did give me the chance to hear some new music, but i have found over the years that this new music i did hear, i didn't remember. This could just be me, but i have found unless i pick up the object, cd in my case, and put it in the cd player, and i can see the artwork every time i walk past the shelf, it is all to easily forgotten. It becomes just another file on my computer along with all the other files, no memory of buying it, no memory of receiving it in the post, let alone hearing something away from the computer. So i was glad to see Term stop to be honest, and although i love 12k and Line, rarely do i listen to the Term releases. Were they released on CD now, i would almost certainly buy them, mainly for the purpose of being able to actual listen to them properly. Having said that i totally understand and respect the choices made and the testing of the water, seeing what the public want, but could providing to much choice do more damage than good? I don't know.

One last point, is that i always assumed these great labels such like 12k and Line, would always be around and couldn't possibly go under or be in trouble. I was shocked and woken up when i heard that Smallfish ended. This one disaster alone i feel is a reason to support the labels and the decent, supportive shops like Smallfish, of whom there is no replacement. So we should do what we can to keep them around.

[taylordeupree]

I also wonder how the quality of music has generally been effected due to legit free mp3 download formats. Generally speaking i feel working for a price and working for free there comes a point where the work is going to suffer. I am not suggesting that a good artist would specifically write a lower quality track purely because it is free, although this is possible

good point to bring up.. and, i'll be totally honest and frank... when someone is paying me $1000 for a remix, you bet i'm going to put more time and effort into it than someone paying me nothing for a remix. they're making an investment and it's my duty to live up to that...

that's not to say i'll write a piece of crap for someone for free.. after all, it's going to be released with my name on it and be viewed by the public on an equal level with the rest of my catalog...

that's also not to say that stuff i've done for free hasn't come out better or been favorite work of mine over the stuff i've been paid to do...

but.. truth is.. i'm a busy guy... and when i do stuff for free it gets a bit less effort.

[moize]

[taylordeupree]

agreed on all points...

[leaf]

i made some adjustments as i wanted to keep my reply simple.

I see and experience the only cd market left for obscure and small labels as Limited edition cds in good packaging.

I was selling 1000 cds about 3 years back in 1.5 years.Now i am down to 300.I always sold these as limited editions and for me its the only option.

I do not like files , i like to feel , see , have art , a package and i collect cds.

So do at least 300 people worldwide and as labels phase out cds it simply means those who do them will become more rare and sort after.

There will always be a % who want cds.

I see a day when cd in collectable art packaging will be worth alot more maybe an audio cd / flac data cd / art , package .

As eno has just done.

Instead of slowly eroding your art into a cheap and worthless digital commodity return it to art , do the opposite , dont follow trends make them.

There is no future in selling cheap mp3 via itunes , or cheap music for artists.For mass produced labels maybe but as musicians we really have to consider our worth.

As an artist selling his own music on limited cd ( glass master with full art etc ) for 5 years now and with about 8 releases i can say for me its now about limiting my sales , not maximising them , about selling less , distributing less and making my art and label more collectable , making it harder to buy it and making it so each buyer is a collector and supporter of me as an artist.Sell less , charge more  , return music to a valued work of art.

I end all digital distribution ( via  a major network and on every major digital retailer ) in 2011 and you will only be able to buy my work direct from me , on my site .I also end all distribution with pile it high and sell it cheap retailers .

The future for me is selling 100 / 300 limited works of art , of music / flac and in good packaging and making it so you have no choice , you buy the work as a work of art from me direct or you go buy or download some free musical commodity.

Sorry but many are heading in the wrong direction as artists , devalueing their work , piling high , selling cheap and really being sucked into and endless spiral of worthlessness.

The future is in becoming small , self suficient , offering good creative art , nice packaging and a mixed medium of cd , flac , wav and above all cutting out pointless middle men  , deal direct as artist  / label with the music buyer who supports you as an artist.

We must return music in peoples minds as a work of art.


Selling digital files does not equate to a  living for small labels.Its a trap and the trend is killing music and the idea musicians can make a living.

Its an erosion of creative spirit in music by market forces and consumerism trends that suit mac and the rest of  ' the corporation '

Digital only sales will in the end kill music i feel as art and all we will have left is a load of watered down labels selling files for 1 cent and a few highly collectable artists labels doing to exact oppsosite .

Do the opposite form the pack i say.I invested my time in collecting all my customers contacts , selling direct.I sell more direct than via distributers and retailers  now , way more.

We have to step back now , make efficient and above all work as a painter selling his work to a buyer.

Take a pro active step , force all sales through your site , all mediums controlled by the label and artist ( if an artist run label ) Price the works at a good value and remind the buyers anc Colectors ( the key ) that theya re supporting art and artists , not itune and the rest of big business.

Educate and appeal to the listeners heart and thank them for direct support.

Its a  worthless relationship that sees a listener want to pay as little as possible for your work.They dont emjoy it so much and value it less and you ? you make no living.

Mp3 via distribution is a  trap as are cheap file sales.

[taylordeupree]

words to live by. absolutely well put.

inspiring, even...

Instead of slowly eroding your art into a cheap and worthless digital commodity return it to art , do the opposite , dont follow trends make them.

[moize]

We must return music in peoples minds as a work of art.

Selling digital files does not equate to a  living for small labels.Its a trap and the trend is killing music and the idea musicians can make a living.

Sorry but many are heading in the wrong direction as artists , devalueing their work , piling high , selling cheap and really being sucked into and endless spiral of worthlessness.

I could quote everything you said.

I agree 100%. Possibly the most inspiring and positive thing i have read on this issue. Perfect timing for 2011.

Interestingly i was speaking to Baz Nicols recently, and he is tackling the problem with sales, piracy and community in a subscription way. Basically a limited number of people would subscribe for a years worth of releases, in most cases they would already be aware of what releases they would be receiving, and also the possibility of further surprises as the years passes. Again this way Baz would have everyones email address, be selling direct, bringing back to some degree that community that has been altered via the internet. Also a good part of this is for promoting new artists, releasing their work within a package along side other more established names. This ensures that the subscriber gets to hear and own works that they may have not otherwise took the gamble on.
With this way Baz knows that it is those who really want to hear and support the White.Line label that are buying the releases. Obviously also this upfront payment helps budget the years releases and of how many should be made.
I only spoke briefly via email two days ago so not sure of all the exact details, but it does sound an interesting and positive step.

I must say after reading your post i feel very positive for 2011.

[Le Berger]

[moize]

Just a quick one, Lucia (my partner) spotted this today, short article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12151157

[zzzone.net]

Hi, folks.  I'm new to the 12k forum but NOT new to 12k.  I'm an avid collector of electronic music, and I have been purchasing CDs since their dawn.  I recall they first became available in '81 or '82 for me because I was able to afford my first CD player.  I was around when 12k came into existence and have gotten most releases on CD.

CDs are an obsession for me, and like many others on this forum, I really enjoy the packaging and physicality of the discs.

However, when I recently relocated after Hurricane Katrina from New Orleans to Austin, I was reminded about the space requirements for storage, and the slow degradation of the packaging as well as some of the discs.  Additionally figuring out a way to find music via a filing system is mind-boggling with my collection.

Solution:  THE HOME MUSIC SERVER

For the last 3 years I have been ripping every disc I have to FLAC.  Currently I have over 71,000 files, about 4-5000 of which are MP3.   

The server allows me to access my files in any room of the house via a variety of remote controls.  I can use an iPod Touch, an iPhone, an Android phone, a remote that comes with the server hardware, or an iPad.  I can also use any computer in the house including my netbook.  Also each playback device has an interface for locating music.

The server itself is a low power computer that sits in a closet with two 2 terrabyte drives with the files.  Via my plain-jane Wi-Fi network, I can listen to music in all areas of the house using the Logitech Squeezebox playback devices including the Radio, Boom, and Touch.  Any computer with speakers can also serve as a playback device as can my iPad.  The Touch in the living room is capable of playing back higher resolution 24 bit / 96 kHz files than can be obtained from CDs via my stereo music system.  Files like this can be obtained from folks like HDTracks.com.

Once I've ripped the music into the server, my access to that "CD" is immediately improved and, if I back it up which I always do, that "CD" is now immune from degradation/oxidation.  Access is via search of artist name or title, or just browsing through thumbnails of CD covers.  I can also browse via genre and date of production.  THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE WITH CDS.

Also you can view the full size CD art on the iPad but also get lyrics, information about the artist, and even links to buy more of the artist's music.

Since I put the system into place, I have listened to my music so MUCH MORE because of the access issue.  There's no excuse to NOT listen.

So for me, I still treasure CDs but I am buying more and more FLAC and WAV files directly from artists, labels, and distributors like Boomkat.  I have run out of physical space but my hard drives are ready.

Once you have experienced a music server such as Squeezebox or Sonos, it's hard to imagine NOT having one.  And the Squeezebox line of products is very affordable.  Each playback device is in the range of 250-400 USD.  Sonos is about 50-100% more per room.

So for me CDs have become a method of transporting the files and much less of a playback medium.  I rarely put a CD into a player anymore except in my car.

There is nothing quite like reading about a new artist and album, purchasing and downloading the files immediately, and then listening within a few minutes of reading about the artist.

iPad interface: http://zzzone.net/photo/server.jpg

CD library: http://zzzone.net/photo/2009/music1.jpg

Squeezebox interface on a computer - New Music folder: http://zzzone.net/files/new-music.jpg

To summarize:

Things you can do with files that you cannot do with CDs or any other medium:

1.  Play high fidelity files 96/24 or better (this morning I got Elvis Presley and Nick Drake music in this format)
2.  Play music over your home music server in any room, different music in several rooms, all controlled by several different wireless remotes
3.  Queue up hundreds of your favorite songs to play all day without interruption
4.  View full-size album art, lyrics, and related information via live links from the song or the artist
5.  Purchase more music from the artist via links from the music on the tablet remote control
6.  Play your stored music via streaming on a telephone from anywhere in the world
7.  In return for uploading your play stats to last.fm, last.fm will allow you to stream your music to you anywhere you have a internet connection
8.  Use the storage space for CDs for something else.  Hundreds of thousands of hi-fi .flac files can be stored on a 2 TB external hard drive with another one used as a backup.
9.  No worries about CD deterioration or damage (make sure your files are backed-up though)
10.  Listen to the same music at the gym while exercising vigorously (CDs will skip)

Things you cannot do with music files:

1.  Hold the CD or the case in your hand and review the printed paper album notes and art
2.  Put the CD in the player with your hand

So for me, it's not about one or the other, but I do foresee that CDs will garner less of a market share as time goes on and more folks get on board with home music servers.  Just like CDs supplanted vinyl and cassettes, the hard disc or solid state drives will replace CDs as the playback medium.

http://www.logitechsqueezebox.com

http://www.sonos.com

or just Google "home music server"

I hope I have added another perspective to this discussion

Jim

[Orphax]

Credits for the Yma Sumac record :-)
really need to get some of those