Does changing DAW's ever make you feel like you've mentally regressed?

[Charlie Grant]

Probably a stupid question. And most likely, almost entirely due to a lack of experience and knowledge. But when you move up to something that is supposedly more advanced, does it ever just make you feel more stupid?

[taylordeupree]

DAWs are so deep these days.. this is one of the reasons i've never changed.. in (gulp) 21 years....

(digital performer for me)

[jórgos]

But when you move up to something that is supposedly more advanced, does it ever just make you feel more stupid?

Yes, certain DAWs have this ability    but it's a matter of practice

Most of the times the important thing is the operator and not the DAW you're using.

Although a more advanced sophistacated software may unlock some aspects of your creativity.

I am sticking to Live and Logic.

[QuiltSuns]

Sure! The software companies work so hard to beat each other and they are making such an awesome tools, capable of doing everything in one single bundle that they are going to kill us! May be today, the first ability you need to have in order to be a musician is the ability to say "No thank you! Personally, I had a couple of nervous breakdowns last year because of music technology and believe me, I am a really, really tough guy! ;-) Have you tried the "Tambourine Therapy"  Charlie?

[Le Berger]

Sure! The software companies work so hard to beat each other and they are making such an awesome tools, capable of doing everything in one single bundle that they are going to kill us!

As mentioned in the other thread about randomization tools and the likes, I work with a lot of outdated and somewhat restricting tools. They have the advantage of being so readily intuitive, simple, ready to go. By downsizing the scope of what can be done or tweaked with, you have to be more ingenuous to get where you wanna go. Sometimes it's a shear pain in the ass, other times it's a real brain puzzler, but then when it works, when it rly rly works, it's one of the best feelings ever. You feel comforted in the dumbass feeling that you don't need anything fancy! (and your wallet thanks you for it)

That said, I'm a sucker for the DIY culture as a general rule of thumb, and the actual quality of the end product does suffer when using improper tools for the work you set out to do.

For that reason, I'm about to overhaul everything and try to make the best of both worlds (ancient simplistic tools vs malleability of new fascinating products)

I'm scared sh*tless. I'm probably the least techy guy to graze these forums, and the scary part is not about learning new techniques or tools (that's actually pretty fun and interesting) it's the idea of having too many possibilities.

I find that you see it time and time again, people geared up to the f*cking roof and with incredibly malleable tools to produce something. The product is spic and span, the form gorgeous in every way, but there's nothing inside the house, so to speak.

Before making a buying decision, I'm gonna try a bunch of them as I have no clue which one will actually scare me the least (ha!) I'm guessing I'm simply gonna go with the one that feels most intuitive.

[billygomberg]

every time they update Logic, it takes me years to catch up with new features.  even the ones I need!

the same thing happened on the Max5 upgrade - there were a lot of great features that I just didn't touch for a long time, now I don't know what I would do w/out them.

[jimmy behan]

heh I upgraded to Win 7recently and spent about half an hour the other night trying to figure out how to show jpegs as previews in a folder.
felt like a right noob.

it's been a long time since I felt like I needed to upgrade my music software because I felt limited by what I had.
I've been using basically the same tools for years and if I feel I'm struggling with my music, then my compositional approaches are usually where I'll look to improve things first.
life is too short to be wading through manuals and help forums when there's music to be made.

[Koda]

Too many choices, options, etc!

a big problem with ANYTHING today.

Not exclusive to computer music....

[Charlie Grant]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. It's encouraging to get other peoples perspectives on this. Practice really is the best way to get your head around something new.

this is one of the reasons i've never changed.. in (gulp) 21 years....

21 years! That really does put things into perspective. It makes you wonder what DAW's will be like in 2032.

it's a matter of practice

Completely agreed. Practice, time and a bit of patience which is sometimes difficult to summon in the right measure. Nothing is going to happen overnight though. Trying to keep that in mind.

Have you tried the "Tambourine Therapy"  Charlie?

Tambourine Therapy isn't a familiar name. It sounds very....therapeutic. What is it all about?

For that reason, I'm about to overhaul everything and try to make the best of both worlds (ancient simplistic tools vs malleability of new fascinating products)

I'm scared sh*tless. I'm probably the least techy guy to graze these forums, and the scary part is not about learning new techniques or tools (that's actually pretty fun and interesting) it's the idea of having too many possibilities.

So much of what you said made absolute sense. It was really tempting when I upgraded, to just set everything else aside and focus solely on the new software. And this achieves very little in terms of developing creatively. If anything, it's a huge step backwards. Why not combine old, reliable sources with clever, new things?

Too many possibilities. It caused me to skim over things instead of learning them properly. Amassing plugins for the sake of it has inspired similar feelings in the past too. Good luck with the overhaul. Sure it will go well.

Max5 upgrade - there were a lot of great features that I just didn't touch for a long time, now I don't know what I would do w/out them.

Max For Live is what I've been struggling to get my head around. And Ableton too. Initially, it all just seemed so foreign and different.

On a side note, hope you get that Qwartz award, Billy. "Flyover Sound" is sublime from start to finish. Truly deserving.

life is too short to be wading through manuals and help forums when there's music to be made.

So true, so true!

Too many choices, options, etc!

It really is. There's no arguing with that. Not just in music, but everywhere.

[billygomberg]

Practice really is the best way to get your head around something new.

absolutely.  more profound than you may think.

this is one of the reasons i've never changed.. in (gulp) 21 years....

21 years! That really does put things into perspective. It makes you wonder what DAW's will be like in 2032.

well, probably very similar unless interface design undergoes a huge paradigm shift.  get to work on that if you really want a challenge.

Max For Live is what I've been struggling to get my head around. And Ableton too. Initially, it all just seemed so foreign and different.

I don't really know from M4L b/c I don't use Ableton.  I don't know anything about yr practice...but what do you expect/need out of these two, really pretty different, environments?  Max can be very VERY challenging if you do not have a good grasp of what you want to build for yourself (much less designing yr own UI).  Ableton's interface, and general workflow, just doesn't work for me, for whatever reason.

On a side note, hope you get that Qwartz award, Billy. "Flyover Sound" is sublime from start to finish. Truly deserving.

hey well, I'm glad that the album is that enjoyable, and of course that you enjoyed it to the degree that you must comment publicly!  more topic-appropriate discussion to be had in the appropriate thread.

life is too short to be wading through manuals and help forums when there's music to be made.

So true, so true!

thirded.

[QuiltSuns]

Tambourine Therapy isn't a familiar name. It sounds very....therapeutic. What is it all about?

I completely made it up! But the idea is that you try to focus in the simplest instrument you may have and get rid of the rest (for a while). Like going on vacations! I always have found that the most inspiring artistic technique for me is "boredom". It is in the void when you can hear new things. Minimalism is much about that I think.
I was really pissed off the first time I used Ableton: I hated it (I was using Sonar at the time). It is really a different approach. Now I see it as a huge toolbox for making trillions of different musical instruments, apart from recording, producing, djing... last year I quitted trying to be updated for updating's sake! I still study new software (manuals) because I love it. It is like reading Sci-Fi but now I only do it in my (little) spare time. I realized that what I wanted/needed is to have the everyday adventure of composing with any source of sound available: the important thing is the adventure of the unknown... thats why I like generative and random processes too! So, be happy, you are never going to be bored, but do not eat all the candies they offer you: you will loose you teeth! ;-)

[jórgos]

Max For Live is what I've been struggling to get my head around. And Ableton too. Initially, it all just seemed so foreign and different.

I don't really know from M4L b/c I don't use Ableton.  I don't know anything about yr practice...but what do you expect/need out of these two, really pretty different, environments?  Max can be very VERY challenging if you do not have a good grasp of what you want to build for yourself (much less designing yr own UI).  Ableton's interface, and general workflow, just doesn't work for me, for whatever reason.

Basically M4L and MAX is the same thing but you cannot make standalone effects or whatever, with M4L because you are using Ableton’s sound engine.  So, you are bound to use your custom utilities inside Ableton. For me M4L is really useful because I can see the core of effects and instruments in order to have a deeper insight and therefore to fully understand their functions.
Why you have to make your own delays or reverbs from zero, I can’t see the point. I remember Christopher Willits in a youtube video explaining a step sequencer that he created with MAX or M4L. It was pretty much the same step sequencer of M4L but with a different interface
So, I find it more useful to modify and combine effects in order to serve me better.