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Author Topic: cassette tape loops  (Read 3254 times)

landtitles

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cassette tape loops
« on: October 20, 2010, 01:41:08 pm »


so i need some help with this here lads (marcus fischer where are you)

i've tried making some tape loops, short ones and the long dust breeding one and have encountered some problems with getting results i'm happy with

 
what is the best method for connecting the tape, i have been using transparent tape
and there is always a gap in playback, i'm thinking that there is a way to not have this happen

i have tried cutting the tape straight and on a 45 degree angle also

please help

i have made about 20 of these things and apparently i have no clue what i'm doing


thanks all

grant

davidandree

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2010, 06:15:26 pm »
while scotch tape should be okay, i have found actual cassette splicing tape to hold up better

the best way to get a clean loop would be to invest in a splicing block - if you plan on doing a lot with tape loops you'll thank yourself... not only will they help make sure the splice is just right, it will hold the tape while you cut + tape it.

mfischer

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2010, 11:43:01 pm »
you rang?

marcus fischer at your service.

you have a right to be frustrated... it seems like it should be easy, but the cassette tape loop thing is tricky. 
i've been making tape loops for years and sometimes even if you think that you are doing everything right it still doesn't work.

so, on to your issue...

the gap in playback is because you are probably putting tape over your splice.  you want to only use tape behind it (and yes, clear thin tape like regular old scotch tape works just fine)  i make my splices w/o the aid of a splicing block and they turn out just fine.
what you want to do to make a clean splice is cut your tape like this...

(your tape is moving this way >>>)

======|       /=======
straight cut      angled cut

i put some tape behind the segment with the straight cut then you lay the angled cut over the straight one, overlapping by a few mm.  press down and make sure that it is stuck together and is as smooth as you can make it.  then i use an razor or sharp scissors to trim the adhesive tape so that no part is it is exposed (bad for your tape heads).

if you have your tape length/tension right you should be good to go.

let me know if you need any other help.


landtitles

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 01:44:20 pm »


thanks david and thanks marcus for your help

so i thought my problem might have been the direction i was cutting the tape but there is still a gap in playback

the recordings sound great and then gap    ???

i'm assuming that the tape should loop with no audible cut out though

if this is right then is there a chance that the tape i am using is a problem

because everything seems to be right


again

thanks so much

grant

davidandree

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 02:17:32 pm »
are you recording the audio before or after you make the loops? if you are recording after you physically made the loop, you are hearing the gap between the erase and record/play head(s). the erase head comes in contact with the tape first, then the tape travels a bit before it reaches the record/play head - so the gap you might be hearing is the part of the tape that has been erased, but not recorded on yet.

if you want to achieve a loop without a gap, you need to record the audio first and then splice the loop - or - modify your unit to defeat the erase head. in order to do this you'll need to physically remove the head (if it is a permanent magnet) or wire in a switch to cut the signal going to the erase head (if it is an electromagnet). you can tell the difference by looking of the erase head and see if there are any wires running to it - if there are wires you have an electromagnet. but then you'll have a new problem of hearing the clunk of the stop button, or electrical pop

another possibility is the tape is effecting how the tape is traveling over the record/play head - i have noticed sometimes if the tape tension is too low, the spliced area will develop a permanent bend causing the tape to pull away from the head in areas (causing drop outs) so making sure the tape is tight once the tape is in play/record mode would be the remedy for that problem.

also, i have noticed with thicker tape, you usually get a bump each time the tape travels over the head (due to the relative thickness of the splice) but usually not a gap in audio as well...

otherwise if all of the above doesn't solve it, i think marc's advice is great making sure the tape is spliced on the correct side (scotch or splicing tape opposite the record/play head)

in the end, it is the imperfections that are most often the beauty - why else would we be interested in making loops out of magnetic tape when there are plenty of ways to make much cleaner loops digitally ;)

landtitles

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 12:44:56 pm »
hey there marcus and david
thanks so much to the two of you for your help with these things, much appreciated

so yeah, i have been recording the audio after, so maybe that's why there's a gap
i will have to try recording and then cutting

i think i have my tape part figured out though, splice, a bit of tape and proper tension

so far i have made a simple tape loop, marcus's super long one(which might play for 16sec on the slow speed of my 4 track)
and another in between


if there is supposed to be a gap, cutting after recording, i guess that's just the nature of the beast

these are so great though so
thanks again guys

grant

mfischer

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 04:12:21 pm »
glad you have it pretty much sorted out.
RE: the gap... it will be shorter (as will the loop unfortunately) if you use higher speeds on your 4-track.  have you given that a shot?  i would up over dubbing on multiple track on my 4-track so you don't hear the tape gap as much, just a pop here and there for each track.  it gives it a nice rhythm i think ;)

please post links to some results!

davidandree

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2010, 03:44:28 pm »
glad you have it pretty much sorted out.
RE: the gap... it will be shorter (as will the loop unfortunately) if you use higher speeds on your 4-track.  have you given that a shot?  i would up over dubbing on multiple track on my 4-track so you don't hear the tape gap as much, just a pop here and there for each track.  it gives it a nice rhythm i think ;)

please post links to some results!

ah, good call! i need to get my hands on an old four track. i have been using modified portable cassette recorders, so the overdubs are always in one go ... guesses + surprises.  i have been kicking myself for selling my four track years ago...

landtitles

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Re: cassette tape loops
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 04:42:09 am »



hey there guys

so here's a little sample of a loop i was making the other morning
kind of messy, but i think it turned out okay

i just used a dulcimer, contact mic and 4track

had another one on a shorter loop, but the tape broke :'(

will definitely be  making some more

here's a link
http://soundcloud.com/land-titles/forum-tape-loop-short

thanks for listening

grant