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Author Topic: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.  (Read 2569 times)

TomWhitelock

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Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« on: August 04, 2010, 06:37:05 pm »
Hi guys.  This is the first time I am looking for praise and/or constructive criticism and I wouldn't mind either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WugMHkhMLM4

The video was shot with a digital harinezumi 2.  I am by no means a video artist although I have worked with quite a few.
In my eyes the video is more of an accompaniment to the audio.

The audio process began with recording many pieces of audio from my Virus Ti Snow and performing those pieces
in clips triggered by the APC 40 in Live.  I then brought that finished piece into Audiomulch for further processing and sound creation.

This particular track seems like it may have some issues that could be taken care of with some better EQ and mastering...opinions on this would be greatly appreciated.  Wait for mastering or try to take care of it in the mix? 
I plan to send to send a few track to Taylor for mastering.


Well, I hope you enjoy listening and watching.  :)

taylordeupree

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 12:30:31 pm »
always better to send the best mix possible to the mastering engineer... but, also important to not damage your mix at all..

if you feel confident you have the right tools and skills to further the mix, do it.. if not, leave it to the mastering guy as he *will* have that.

that being said, from what i can tell from the youtube video (which probably sounds like crap next to the original).. it's not too bad. you've got a really nice warm low bass..

the one thing that sticks out is maybe in the 5khz or so range, the high ends are a bit sharp/digital. that can definitely be taken care of with some analog EQ goodness.

if you're thinking of me for mastering, great.. i'd be happy to do it!

t


TomWhitelock

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 01:56:59 pm »
Thanks Taylor. 

At this point I am worried about ruining the mix(think I may have a bit already) and not sure I have the right tools.
I don't really use any kind of pro mixing/mastering EQ except for what is in Ableton
and I don't think that it is very pro.  I also had a hard time reeling in the 5k range and I think youtube aggravated
that situation.  There is a certain brittleness to the sound after uploading to youtube.
I am using Yamaha HS-50s which have definitely revealed a lot of things that I wasn't hearing before
but I am not sure they are ideal.  I'd really like to eventually get my hands on some A7s but not
in the cards this year.

I am thinking about purchashing Digital Performer for some more straight forward editing/mixing/EQ options
and I think it will help my process quite a bit.  DP is where I started and I miss it.

I am in this for the long haul so feel free to make any equipment/software suggestions
even if a bit pricey.  You will be at the receiving end of my bad mixing so... :)

I will defintely be sending you some tracks in the coming months for mastering, most of which are guitar based.


Thanks again for your help! I really appreciate your time.

chrismcdonnell

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2010, 03:29:42 am »
Hi Tom,

Just took a quick listen to your mix, it's not too bad at all. As Taylor said, there is a slight edginess in the HF, I'm hearing something funny in the very extreme HF too which may get quite fatiguing, maybe aliasing from the Virus (I've never used one) or from a plug-in somewhere along the line. But that can be easily sorted out with a little bit of EQ in the right spots!  There is a few ways to approach it, mastering EQ is always a balancing act, and each individual engineer has their own take on it. You sometimes find that the solution for one problem actually brings more issues into the foreground!

I'm not listening on the mastering system atm so I'm hesitant to go too deeply into it, but you could try dipping the EQ very slightly (with a broad Q) around there, and/or adding a small amount in the low mids. If it still doesn't sound better to you, often a very gentle LPF in the extreme HF can help to roll off some of that "digital fuzz", whilst still keeping the air in your track.

I'm firmly of the belief that you should send what you feel is a finished track to the mastering engineer, don't settle for anything less. Try and get it right at mix time, constantly compare your track to mixes that you feel are great, and try to notice the differences between them, in terms of EQ. Then try to match them as closely as possible! This is a great learning tool.  :) But if you are getting really exasperated with the mix, send it off to your mastering engineer and just ask for some feedback. Even better, attend the session if possible! I can't tell you how much you can pick up just from watching someone great, doing their thing.

I've never used Ableton at all, so I can't comment on it's EQ but I'm sure if you learn its characteristics, you can get good results from it. Try not to fall into the hole of looking to upgrade gear constantly or blaming it, one it can get very expensive ( ;D ), and it distracts you from actually truly LEARNING to use what you have. I know Gearslutz will say differently, but it really is the operator not the tools! As an example, some of the best mixes I've ever worked on have been entirely mixed in Pro Tools, and some of the 'worst' have come from people mixing on a Neve desk with racks of outboard! But if you feel DP will aid your creative process as a whole, then of course go for it, I know a lot of people love it!

I hope there's something of use in this post, I'm not really familiar with posting on forums so it may be a bit long-winded.  ;D Good luck with the track, I like it a lot and I know Taylor will be able to bring the best out of it for you.  :)

Take care,

Chris

taylordeupree

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2010, 03:51:37 pm »
yeah, what chris said, too... get the mix as close to perfect as you can.. but don't ruin it.

if you think the issue is general mix EQ then for sure the mastering guy can take care of that.. however, sometimes a general mix EQ can be solved by EQing that specific instrument/track that is causing the problem... and do less "damage" to the overall track.


sublamp

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2010, 05:51:12 pm »
I just want to add that I like your digital harinezumi footage!
From one digihari user to another.
 ;D

TomWhitelock

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2010, 08:15:03 pm »
Chris:  Thank you for taking the time to write such a helpful post.  I am not really too familiar with the rules of posting in forums either, but I did not find your post long winded.  I definitely agree that it is often the user and there is not always a need for new software/hardware.  I am a former Mac tech and I have some serious stories about most issues being between the chair and keyboard.  :)  Ableton's arrange window leaves a lot to be desired, so for quicker editing I plan on getting DP anyway, much of my mixing will move back to DP.  That said, I do need to sharpen my mixing skills.  Most of my experience has been in live performance and installation where your sound is usually in a controlled environment (at least the smaller venues I have performed in)that you can test out and adjust to.  Recently I have realized I really need to put more time and focus on my recorded sound and my mix.  I am really glad I posted the youtube link for feedback.  You guys have been very helpful.  Thanks again!

Taylor:  Thanks again!

Ryan:  Your post a few months ago is what actually inspired me to get a Harinezumi , so I owe you thanks.  So, thanks!  I am glad you liked the video.   

chrismcdonnell

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2010, 10:35:42 am »
No problems Tom, I'm glad there was something of use in there!  ;D
Good luck with the music, I hope everything goes well for you!

pascal savy

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2010, 06:34:29 am »
Hi Tom,

that's a lovely track and a lovely video too:-) I can't comment so far on the quality of the mix because listening on crappy headphones right now but will listen on proper speakers tonight.
Maybe there is something you don't know about the Ableton EQ but you can use it in 'hi-quality mode' (oversampling) and it sounds much better - please don't feel offended if you knew that already. It works also in M/S mode and that can be great to enhance the soundstage of some instruments.
Also I feel that getting a good mix with Ableton plugs only is perfectly achievable. As Chris said above, it's the operator most of the time:-)
Combination of Ableton saturation/erosion/vinyl plugins in very moderate amounts can do wonders on cold sounding instruments also and is very effective sometimes.

TomWhitelock

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 10:35:15 am »
Thanks Pascal.  I actually never used M/S mode, and it's blowing my mind over here.  The past week I have been really digging in, and my opinion of Ableton is changing for the better.  The 12k forum is one of the more helpful and informed forums I have been on and I really appreciate the responses.  Thanks again. 

pascal savy

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Re: Opinions regarding mastering, eq etc.
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 05:10:40 am »
There is another important feature for mixing in Ableton that is really noteworthy and it is to incorporate the racks in your workflow. For a start it keeps things tidy- I usually use two racks in series for each track: one for syth+processing or just processing if it's an audio sample and one for the mixing strip. That way I can collapse the racks as I wish and it make the sound design and mixing process much more efficient and quick. But more interestingly, using nested racks in parallel can be very rewarding. The most obvious use of parallel racks is parallel compression. Something accessible from other plugin, easily emulated here. To go further, I have made an M/S rack that allows me to treat the M or S part of the signal with different plugins or chains. Sometimes I add distortion only on the S part of a track or compress more heavily the M part. The possibilities are really endless. As you may know you can rack up 128 racks into one rack and so on in each of the 128 racks. The racks create a very modular environment that can really enhance the possibilities of Ableton native plugin when chained up either in series or parallel.
I hope this will be useful for you.